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    Have you seen anyone who got a postdoc job without a first-authored paper?


    User: Hammurabi - 11 November 2020 02:24

    I'm stuck in a similar position. While I defended my thesis with no problems, the lack of interesting results means that it's pretty difficult to publish most of it. I'm giving it until next summer to see how it goes, and after that start looking for an industry job as I can't see me getting a post-doctoral position without a publication record.

    User: sciencephd - 02 March 2020 18:39

    Quote From Tudor_Queen:
    How about asking your supervisor how you can get a first authored paper? It sounds as though he runs the lab and has a strategy about papers and projects. If he realises you aren't happy to take no as an answer, he may start to include your interests in that strategy. I think this would need a conversation where he saw that you were serious and not about to easily back down. But also I don't think it would help to say you want to use the existing results that he already has plans for. You could see what he says when you state your position about needing an opportunity to publish some first author papers during your PhD. I'd say papers plural, as then you're more likely to get at least one paper out of a negotiation.
    Many thanks for your suggestions. I asked my supervisor a few days ago, but he looked impatient. He couldn't understand why I need a first-authored paper. I insisted I need to get a postdoc position right after my PhD, so a 1st authored paper is important. He then asked me to work harder and do more experiments so that there may be more results for a paper. But he doubted if I could write a paper in a timely manner, because I've never written a paper before. I don't think this conversation is successful. Everything is still in uncertainty, and he seemed very impatient.

    User: sciencephd - 02 March 2020 18:29

    Quote From pm133:


    I should add that my ex-PhD colleagues who came from a non-RG background and secured RG postdocs were in the fields of Chemistry, Physics and Biochem. Two of them have now secured permanent positions within those RG unis. Perhaps it would be different if they were in the Humanities. I have no idea.

    Several of your ex-PhD colleagues have secured permanent jobs at RG unis! Wow that's impressive!
    I'm in chemistry, so I'm interested in those stories. As far as you know, what made them become permanent academics? Is that because they have many brilliant first-authored papers? Did they make a big breakthrough in their field? Or is there anything else that's important for securing permanent academic jobs at top unis?

    User: sciencephd - 02 March 2020 18:22

    Congrats sciencegirl3456! This is encouraging, but it also scares me because you mentioned the fact that you have been competing with lots of postdocs all the time! That means I will also need to compete with postdocs and stand out! But they have more lab experience, their experimental skills are better than mine, and they have more papers....All of these are daunting!
    I'll try and improve my presentation skills and hopefully that will help me impress the search committee.

    User: sciencegirl3456 - 09 February 2020 12:32

    Quote From Tudor_Queen:
    Quote From sciencegirl3456:


    If it is any comfort to you I just accepted a postdoc at a very good uni without publishing. The panel said they chose me over other candidates who all had had postdoc jobs already because they liked me and that I fitted in well with their team. It wasn't an easy process but I got there. My 3 main tips for this are: 1. ace the presentation of your thesis work, 2. emphasis you want to learn and 3. read up on all things related to the project. Also they love the question: where do postdocs in your department go on to do? If you can get any experience teaching project students or demonstrating they loved that.

    Congrats! This is really encouraging!

    Thank you!

    User: sciencegirl3456 - 09 February 2020 12:31

    Quote From Cat123:
    Congrats. How far are you from completing your PhD? I have been thinking about when the best time to start applying for postdocs will be (also in science). I probably wouldn't be able to start a position until next Jan.

    Thanks :)

    I just having my corrections post viva to complete. I started applying in September when I handed in. I applied for 14 postdocs got 5 interviews but my PhD was in something super niche. If you are thinking to start in January start applying around about Sep/Oct.

    User: Tudor_Queen - 08 February 2020 09:29

    Quote From sciencegirl3456:


    If it is any comfort to you I just accepted a postdoc at a very good uni without publishing. The panel said they chose me over other candidates who all had had postdoc jobs already because they liked me and that I fitted in well with their team. It wasn't an easy process but I got there. My 3 main tips for this are: 1. ace the presentation of your thesis work, 2. emphasis you want to learn and 3. read up on all things related to the project. Also they love the question: where do postdocs in your department go on to do? If you can get any experience teaching project students or demonstrating they loved that.

    Congrats! This is really encouraging!

    User: Cat123 - 08 February 2020 02:36

    Congrats. How far are you from completing your PhD? I have been thinking about when the best time to start applying for postdocs will be (also in science). I probably wouldn't be able to start a position until next Jan.

    User: sciencegirl3456 - 06 February 2020 18:09

    Quote From Jamie_Wizard:
    Congratulations Sciencegirl!

    Thanks :)

    User: Jamie_Wizard - 06 February 2020 14:46

    Congratulations Sciencegirl!

    User: sciencegirl3456 - 06 February 2020 14:02

    Quote From sciencephd:
    Quote From sciencegirl3456:
    I am in a similar situation due to an issue of an author on my paper that should be first name. I am applying for postdocs and have had 4 interviews, my lack of publishing has never openly been said as a reason I did not get a postdoc. I can think of quite a few people I know who got postdocs without a first author publication in science.
    Hi sciencegirl3456
    Thank you for letting me know there are postdocs who didn't have first authored papers. You said 'my lack of publishing has never openly been said as a reason I did not get a postdoc', but what did they openly tell you? What's the reason for their refusing to give you the job? I'm wondering what I need to show them to convince them to hire me if I lack good papers. Do you know how those postdocs who didn't have first-authored papers got their postdoc job? What do the PIs seek from applicants?

    Sorry for the very late reply. The reason I was given varied but was quite often was along the lines of we found someone who we get on better with or we have someone who has more experience in the lab than you.

    If it is any comfort to you I just accepted a postdoc at a very good uni without publishing. The panel said they chose me over other candidates who all had had postdoc jobs already because they liked me and that I fitted in well with their team. It wasn't an easy process but I got there. My 3 main tips for this are: 1. ace the presentation of your thesis work, 2. emphasis you want to learn and 3. read up on all things related to the project. Also they love the question: where do postdocs in your department go on to do? If you can get any experience teaching project students or demonstrating they loved that.

    User: Jamie_Wizard - 24 January 2020 11:21

    pm133, didn't mean to offend. I've seen load of your posts where you offer good advice. I did, however, notice some bias in a few - to paraphrase your opinion "Oh yeah, I know loads of dumb people who've got into those top 'RG' universities, they were nothing special. The whole prestigious university thing is bullshit. Just my opinion of course!" In my view that's not particularly helpful. Just my view of course ;-)

    User: Jamie_Wizard - 24 January 2020 11:13

    I was also approached for a post-doc with a famous Russian professor in the UK in a specialist field - Machine Learning. He and his colleagues made some pioneering contributions that transformed the field (they invented conformal prediction in ML). In my case, towards the end of my PhD, which was going really well, I wasn't very proactive in searching for the next position until the last moment, rather focusing on getting it all completed and finishing my publications. The downside to this was that I heard of others having organised their post-docs and jobs before they completed and I felt I'd left it a bit until the last minute.

    Although I achieved 3 full papers and presented at 5 conferences before I finished, I wasn't as proactive and as enterprising in creating collaborations as Tudor Queen.

    That said, the professor I mentioned ran a seminar for staff and post-graduate students where he invited his previous PhD students who ended up working in companies such as Microsoft, Google and Facebook . Our department was small and everyone had an idea of what area others were working on. I sometimes attended the seminars, and there were drinks afterwards where he got to ask me more about my work - in particular he was interested in my background in Chemistry and my PhD in distributed computing.

    As I was submitting, I was approached by the professor who encouraged me to apply for his post-doc position in Machine Learning for Drug discovery. I interviewed for it and got the position.

    I'm currently working in a consulting role in a medical research institute, but now I'm leaving there now to start a post-doc in Imperial college.

    User: Tudor_Queen - 24 January 2020 08:48

    Thank you for providing more context. How about asking your supervisor how you can get a first authored paper? It sounds as though he runs the lab and has a strategy about papers and projects. If he realises you aren't happy to take no as an answer, he may start to include your interests in that strategy. I think this would need a conversation where he saw that you were serious and not about to easily back down. But also I don't think it would help to say you want to use the existing results that he already has plans for. You could see what he says when you state your position about needing an opportunity to publish some first author papers during your PhD. I'd say papers plural, as then you're more likely to get at least one paper out of a negotiation.

    Alongside this, I would look for other opportunities. I was in quite a fix during my. PhD and managed to start a collaboration with a researcher whose work I had admired for years. I simply approached them at a conference and told them which paper I really loved. They then said, oh I didn't get a chance to see your poster, could you email it me after the conference? That set up the communication between us. Then I saw funding being offered for short trips to work with a researcher abroad, and I asked them if they'd be interested in hosting me. They said yes. My supervisors agreed. And basically quite a few good things came out of this, including a paper. I think this is quite a unique case, but it's something you could try.

    Aside from this, finishing the PhD is something in itself and it isn't the end of the world if you don't publish a paper from it. As I mentioned in my first reply, it might take longer to secure a postdoc because of the competition. And you might need to settle for an RA job where you can publish first.

    User: sciencephd - 24 January 2020 03:07

    After my PhD I was approached by two different supervisors and offered postdoc positions. Both were at RG universities and both were leaders in their fields. I didn't have to apply for either. They approached me.
    Could you say more about this story? I'm wondering how a PhD student can get two PIs to approach them and offer them postdoc positions. How did the PIs get to know you? Did they know your supervisor? Was your supervisor famous? What did you do to impress the two PIs? I can't imagine any PI approaching me and offering me jobs. People other than my supervisor and co-supervisor simply don't know my existence. I've no idea how to make them know me. I would appreciate it if you could advice me on that.
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